Is Rock Dead?

Essay for the week starting 29 xii 96.
Includes responses from readers, last updated 16 April 1997

I was born and raised in lower Manhattan. I remember during the seventies and eighties that every few years there was an emphasis on a different kind of music. There was always a big rock scene in New York just as there was always a big jazz scene. There was always a healthy scene of contemporary music coming out of a classical tradition, too. While it's true that all this music was going on at the same time, there usually seemed to be a different focus every few years on one particular genre of music (as opposed to another).

For example, at the start of the seventies there was a tremendous period of excitement on the jazz scene with a different concert happening almost every night over at Sam River's basement studio on Bond Street. A few years later, there was a focus on contemporary music coming out of a classical tradition with Philip Glass playing every week to select audiences at his rehearsal loft in Soho, culminating with the final version of "Music in 12 Parts" and "Einstein on the Beach". Then the punk thing happened. Everyone had been bored to death with rock up to that point, having been saturated with it by the end of the sixties. It had become so, well, TECHNICAL! But when Patti Smith started playing in a band, a lot of people living in downtown Manhattan figured if Patti could do it, maybe they could do it, too. There was an incredible amount of good energy in that area at the end of the seventies and start of the eighties, which started to fizzle out (the focal point of energy) after groups like Sonic Youth and Swans peaked 'round about 1983, which was also about the time when the AKAI S-900 sampler was first marketed and radio station WBLS starting playing a lot of rap over the air. Rap and the promise of the sampler made for a new musical focus. It was an exciting time.

So the question I'm asking is where's the energy now? While people in all genres of music are continuing to do great work (I'm really not attacking anyone here, promise!), it seems that the most interesting new forms to recently evolve have been coming out of dance music (of all things!), at least as far as new formal permutations occurring within a given musical context is concerned. I was exhilarated when I first heard the"house" music from Detroit in 1988. My friend Vivian Dick (the filmmaker) played it for me. I was really into rap at the time, and when Vivian played this house music at a New Year's Eve party I was having at my place in Paris, I asked her to turn it off. I didn't like the sound sources, which seemed to consist of unbelievably cheap electronics and drum machines, it just sounded too primitive to my ears. Vivian told me to shut up and give it a chance, which I did and I ended up liking it. A lot. After that I was back in New York and tried to get this house music from the record stores, but by hat time the people in the rap world (which by then had become big business and big money) had appropriated the term "house", so all I could find was rap music "disguised" as house. I didn't like it as much as the Detroit stuff.

What I liked about "real" house music was that it was instrumental music with no bloody voice going over the top of it all the time the way rap does. I've always been an instrumental composer myself (as opposed to writing songs), so naturally I was intrigued by the voiceless Detroit house music.

Anyway, after the rap people hijacked the term "house", I think the energy might have shifted over to Europe (the UK, Belgium, Germany, and even France!). I've been living in Paris for the past few years. We have these two great radio stations here called Radio FG and Radio Nova. All I know is that at the start of the nineties, I started hearing this amazing instrumental electronic music over the airwaves which eventually turned into the genres called techno, ambient music, jungle, drum & bass and more! It's so amazing what I'm hearing on the radio, these composers are pouring their hearts out, it's the most exciting music I've heard in years. The prediction made by Pierre Boulez in the 1950s that the future would see the masses making and appreciating advanced forms of electronic music has now been fulfilled (although perhaps not in quite the way he expected... roll over, Monsieur Boulez!)

So does this mean that Rock is dead and techno (and its many sub-genres) rules?

Nah. Rock isn't dead, it just grew up. Now it knows how classical music feels!

Rhys Chatham
Paris, France
1 January 1997

This essay is interactive in the sense that if you agree or disagree or feel strongly one way or the other about anything I've said, I'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject. Please click on Rhys.Chatham to let me know what you think, because I'd really like to know!

Responses to the

"Is Rock Dead?"

article:

2 February 1997 - Here are some of the responses I received from the above essay (all of the responses are published here with the written permission of their authors, with the exception of one which I suspect was only a form letter from the company I received it from).

The first response I received was from Kyle Gann. I liked what he said so much that I used it as the punch line of the final version of the essay!

Subject: Death of Rock
Sent: 5/1/97 19:12
Received: 5/1/97 18:51
From: Kyle Gann, gann@bucknell.edu
To: chatham@pratique.fr

Rhys,

Rock isn't dead, it just grew up. Now it knows how classical music
feels.

Kyle

****************************************************

From: russell@nntp.best.com (Jeff Harrington)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Is Rock Dead?
Date: 1 Feb 1997 15:10:19 GMT

Rhys Chatham (chatham@pratique.fr) wrote:
: Is Rock Dead?
:
Rock was never truly alive. It was music for and by adolescents, and it
therefore never truly had any life experience in it! Sure, it had
hormones, beats, ecstasy, but it was never alive. More like a stillborn
thrill. Only something that has really come close to death is alive.
Some Doors songs, maybe come close, a bit of Hendrix, some triphouse,
maybe... a little, but it is not alive unless it is as sophisticated and
as varied as life itself. That is, it covers not just the genitals and the
heart, but the deepest emotions we all experience, (although most of us
have no art to relate to in this sense that can talk about these deepest
experiences because we're stuck with pop music and Star Wars).

Life is not something small like pop music. It can't be symbolized nor
contained by something as mundane, as small-minded, something spawned
purely by dreams of groupies and drug trips and cash money. Sometimes it
comes close but that ain't nothin'. That's just a good day in the studio.
Not a lifetime spent perfecting art which can come close to the deepest
aspects of humanity.

> I'm a composer/musician who was born and raised in lower Manhattan.

We know who you art... Mr. Art Rock.. ;-) I've got a few of your
records! You're one of the guys responsible for todays flood of
rock-inspired new music..
..

[snip]

: It's so touching what I'm hearing on the radio, they're pouring their
: hearts out, it's the most exciting music I've heard in years. The
: prediction made by Pierre Boulez in the 1950s that the future would
: see the masses making and appreciating advanced forms of electronic
: music has now been fulfilled (although perhaps not in quite the way he
: expected... roll over, Monsieur Boulez!)

You exaggerate its importance. Sure, it'll all be sentimental nostalgia
in 20 years and listened to a little, but again, it's not sophisticated
enough in its emotional range to be - anything. It's a cheap rush and I
love the stuff. Listen to it all day sometimes at work, but it's ear
candy.

I don't believe that classical music, though, has a god damn chance until
it can provide the same rush that great techno or a blazing Hendrix solo
can. Who's going to listen to it? The sophisticate? She died 20 years
ago in a car crash on I90. Classical music has to evolve into something
exciting and timely or its just dead. Ultimately, it'll be one or two
composers who make the bridge the rest of the wanna be composers of the
next century use. You, at least have participated in the (ahem)
bridge-building process! Don't go and pretend that the bricks of the
bridge are important. Forget that. It's the humanity that'll travel
across it that's important.

The only art that is ever imortant is the art
that has it all... all the sadness, all the trippy rushes, all the anger
and fear. Rock/pop/techno don't got squat in that department. Just one
sentiment after another. But hey, we're all getting so fuckin'
intimidated by our cool friends that we think that the crap they listen to
is art! Ha.... we know better. We're just so god damn hungry for
something new and exciting we'll buy it for now and feel like a flake next
year. We can do better! If you have to, just act like you know, bob you
head... but don't buy it in any deep sense.

: So does this mean that Rock is dead and techno (and its many
: sub-genres) rules?

: Nah. Rock isn't dead, it just grew up. Now it knows how classical
: music feels!

Nah... I still get a little rush listening to some White Zombie from time
to time... but it's just ear candy, inspiration - just today's peasant
song to rip off.

Jeff Harrington [ "Art does not make peace...that is not its business...]
jeff@parnasse.com [ Art is peace." --Robert Lowell]
http://www.parnasse.com/jeff.htm --------->>[[ My Music ]]<<--------------]
http://www.parnasse.com/vrml.shtml ------->>[[ My Worlds ]]<<-------------]

****************************************************

This response to Jeff Huntington was made by rhys on the rec.music.compose newsgroup:


My understanding of Jeff Harrington's thought provoking response to the article I posted recently (Is Rock Dead?) is that rock isn't dead because it was never alive in the first place!

Jeff goes on to make hierarchical distinctions between rock, techno, pop and music coming out of a classical tradition...he is basically saying that rock/pop/techno don't reach the lofty heights of music coming out of a classical tradition, saying (forgive the out of context quote, Jeff): " The only art that is ever important is the art that has it all... all the sadness, all the trippy rushes, all the anger and fear. Rock/pop/techno don't got squat in that department. You exaggerate its importance. Sure, it'll all be sentimental nostalgia in 20 years and listened to a little, but again, it's not sophisticated enough in its emotional range to be - anything."

But on the other hand, Jeff says that:

"I don't believe that classical music, though, has a god damn chance until
it can provide the same rush that great techno or a blazing Hendrix solo
can. Who's going to listen to it? "

I couldn't agree more!

I don't like to make hierarchical value judgments on the different genres of music, though. I think amazing work has been done in all fields. I don't know about you, Jeff, but songs or albums like Batchain Puller - Captain Beefheart; the Idiot - Iggy Pop; I'm Gonna Put a Spell on You - Screamin' Jay Hawkins - Marque Moon - Television; certain Sonic Youth songs... I kinda feel that some of them reach those heights that you were talking about. Also, you don't mention jazz... how about Charlie Parker, Miles Davis, Max Roach, John Coltrane, Carla Bley, Chet Baker, etc etc? I'll betcha a lot of tunes from that field will hold their own for a long time to come as well, being, as they are (to use your words) "as sophisticated and
as varied as life itself. That is, it covers not just the genitals and the
heart, but the deepest emotions we all experience".

I must say that I have to agree to a large extent with your statement about techno music: "You exaggerate its (techno and its sub-genre) importance. Sure, it'll all be sentimental nostalgia in 20 years and listened to a little, but again, it's not sophisticated enough in its emotional range to be - anything. It's a cheap rush and I love the stuff. Listen to it all day sometimes at work, but it's ear candy."

A lot of it really IS ear candy! But isn't what you're talking about more the difference between truly transcending music as opposed to music which does not succeed in transcending within a given musical genre or context... rather than the context itself? What I mean is that there is a LOT of bad music out there in ALL fields. Ha! That's surely something we can all agree upon!

I've heard so much bad contemporary music coming out of a classical context, it bores me to tears...same thing with music coming out of rock, jazz, pop, and electronica...but one has to admit that there's music that's way bloody good in all the genres, even in techno, Jeff! Ya just gotta look for it.

>Classical music has to evolve into something
>exciting and timely or its just dead. Ultimately, it'll be one or two
>composers who make the bridge the rest of the wanna be composers of the
>next century use.

There was an interesting article in the January '97 issue of The Wire Magazine by Ben Watson of an Iannis Xenakis biography that just came out. Of all that generation, I find Xenakis to be one of the most open-minded. I like a lot of his music, I became a fan after I heard "Occident/Orient". Anyway, here's the quote from the Wire: "Post-war classical composition is a fraught business enthralled to the retrospective elevation of Bach, Beethoven to the heights of "genius" mystification. Modern composers tend to be individualistic, competitive and megalomaniac (hey, sounds like me!!!) Ironically, Xenakis' lack of interest in alternative methods of realizing music (free improvisation , which he calls "a fashion, like jazz", studio multi-tracking, jazz collectivity, pop intervention) fixes iginal question had more to do with energy focus rather than emotive and intellectual hierarchy between the various musical genres. As I said earlier, I'm amazed by all the new stuff happening within ambient, jungle, techno, new electronica, drum and bass, etc and was saying the most interesting music being made today is happening within its borders, but maybe I'm wrong. I received an e-mail from Andrew Russ, who said (in part) in response to the "Is Rock Dead" article:

"But then i realized there are many such scenes that sort of
operate in parallel and don't get heard of because they don't
even care about radio airplay. There's a hardcore punk community
in eastern Pennsylvania that i know about because i sometimes
see their fanzines and flyers. I think that a lot of these
people are also into ska, though i haven't heard any of this
stuff.
Even stranger, on cable there's a christian punk rock
video show. There are still death metal heads out there, there are
people into hearts of space(TM), etc. etc. And the people in each
scene are probably thinking that that is where _the_ creative
activity is going on. And that area may well be creative, it at
least has the interest of the people in them..."

Which I guess says it all...

All the best,
Rhys
_______________________________________________________


Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 17:20
Received: 1/2/97 18:43
From: SNOTHANSON, SNOTHANSON@prodigy.net
To: Rhys Chatham, chatham@pratique.fr

I agree that there seems to be a lack of innovation on the music
scene today. In my search for new sounds, I find myself going back in
time. I'm now becoming interested in (get this) Burl Ives. It's just
become to much trouble to follow every little tweak of the rock scene,
when there is a wealth of fun stuff in the bargin bins at my local used
record shops. Are you finding yourself doing this as well?
Scott

****************************************************

Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 23:21
Received: 2/2/97 0:24
From: Jonathan Miller, jemill@mindspring.com
To: Rhys Chatham, chatham@pratique.fr

On Sat, 01 Feb 1997 02:51:23 +0100, you wrote:

>Is Rock Dead?
>
You are the same Rhys Chatham who wrote for masses of electirc
guitars? Heard one of your pieces at BAM back in the early 80s. Think
it was on a program with Reich and others. Impressive sound!!
Overtones were banging around creating some bizarre imoressions.

Do you think that techno is so different from "Rock"? I think it
depends on the distance or perspective you have when making the
comparison. Coming in from the "classical" perspective, the two
styles share alot and in my mind, are different ways of expressing
similar, rhythmcentric musical ideas. The sounds of synths and
computers are somewaht colder than a beautiful bent note on a guitar
but the propulsive thrust of this techno can be compared to alot of
African based music. Coming from a "rock" perspective all fine
stylistic details make the two styles seem quite different.

Just a thought - what do you think?

****************************************************
Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 5:21
Received: 1/2/97 10:39
From: Matthew H. Fields, fields@eecs.umich.edu
To: chatham@pratique.fr

Oh, no, if rock has met the fate of classical music, that means 10000
out-of-work over-talented rock musicians for every 100 out-of-work
over-talented classical composers for every 10 employed rock musicians
of varying talents for every 1 employed classical composer, who might
be great or might have kissed butt to get where they are. What does that
leave for fighting back? Mahler-scale symphonies to put everybody back
to work? (I wish, sometimes...)

Keep in work, Rhys, and be a beacon to us out-of-workers!

Matt

****************************************************

Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 7:52
Received: 1/2/97 10:39
From: Andrew Russ, endwar@phys.psu.edu
To: chatham@pratique.fr

Where is it happening now? Dunno precisely.

There is noise, which isn't exactly within a tradition, unless you
count "Metal Machine Music" as a ttradition. Some of that is great.
I've been listening a lot to Aube lately. Merzbow is good.
I like the Hafler Trio, too, though maybe they are sort of a
continuation of industrial more than loud noise. You can read
more on alt.noise I think Thurston Moore is into some of that
stuff. You can read about it in Bananafish magazine, too.

To some extent, i think the "louder, denser" shool is fading
out in favor of a more self-consciously avant-garde style.
Seems like lots of people are into Cage and Stockhausen as
influences.

And Krautrock. Krautrock revivalists in some form or another
are showing up in the form of bands like Stereolab or Tortoise
(i've heard them compared to Can), Gastr del Sol.

I never really followed "house", except that i do know that
Psychic TV (of all people) also appropriated the style ca. 1988
and did a few fake compilations and stuff.

Incidentally, you should consider crossposting the message to
some other groups. then again, you may just get everyone's
personal biases, such as i have put in this message.

andrew
****************************************************

Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 2/2/97 9:33
Received: 2/2/97 10:44
From: Andrew Russ, endwar@phys.psu.edu
To: chatham@pratique.fr
>
>Hi Andrew,
>
>thanks for your response, would you mind if I post it on my web page?
>
Sure. It was sort of an off the cuff post, in that i later
started thinking and wondering what happened to "copyright violation"
as art, a la Negativland, John Oswald, and the Evolution Control Committee,
and Oval (though i haven't heard the latter yet). That's another
promising area, which runs a lot through cassette networks that i'm
not really a part of.

But then i realized there are many such scenes that sort of
operate in parallel and don't get heard of because they don't
even care about radio airplay. There's a hardcore punk community
in eastern Pennsylvania that i know about because i sometimes
see their fanzines and flyers. I think that a lot of these
people are also into ska, though i haven't heard any of this
stuff.
Even stranger, on cable there's a christian punk rock
video show. There are still death metal heads out there, there are
people into hearts of space(TM), etc. etc. And the people in each
scene are probably thinking that that is where _the_ creative
activity is going on. And that area may well be creative, it at
least has the interest of the people in them, but there are also
lots of other areas with other people. Not enough people to
make an obvious scene in our area dominated by one kind of music.
Rather these networks are dispersed and interacting through the
mail and increasingly through computers.

As for me personally, i'm too busy catching up with what
i already know -- this week i bought older CDs by Husker Du,
Th' Faith Healers, Elvis Costello, Henry Cowell, and Stockhausen
(an LP, actually), before that it was an order of noise
by Aube, Phill Niblock, The Haters, and Jliat, plus David Hykes,
Cath Carroll, The Marine Girls, and Robyn Hitchcock. It's
getting too hard to listen to "everything". It's even
gotten hard to know what "everything" is. I just have to
figure out what to restrict myself to.

andrew

****************************************************

Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 22:41
Received: 2/2/97 0:24
From: Joe Celli, CelliOO5@aol.com
To: chatham@pratique.fr

thanks very much for your response - you bring up some very provacative
ideas, questions, etc. may we make a suggestion? if you visit our web site
you will see that there is a forum for this type of discussion with some very
informed people visiting - i think you could add and get some interesting
discussion going - how about visiting it and joining in?
http://www.hear.com/o.o./
go to the NEWS page and then the FORUM.
best to you,
O. O. DISCS, INC.

**************
**************************************

Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 22:45
Received: 2/2/97 0:24
From: Matthew H. Fields, fields@eecs.umich.edu
To: chatham@pratique.fr


Another new fashion that came and went is crooning in a style
that sounds to me like Islamic liturgy (e.g. Boys 2 Men).
Usually romantic or erotic lyrics, heavy technology, choral harmony
sometimes faked with synths under heavily ornamented "passionate"
solo voice...
When it hit, it surely was new...

But I think you answered your own question. The best new trend
is just on the verge of being discovered. The energy that requires
continual novelty for regrowth is just that. And the novelty
is always there, hiding somewhere--and as soon as it's discovered,
it's not novel any more, but something else is waiting to be discovered.
It's a never-ending ride!

--
Matt Fields URL:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
****************************************************

Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 1/2/97 22:45
Received: 2/2/97 0:24
From: Matthew H. Fields, fields@eecs.umich.edu
To: chatham@pratique.fr


Another new fashion that came and went is crooning in a style
that sounds to me like Islamic liturgy (e.g. Boys 2 Men).
Usually romantic or erotic lyrics, heavy technology, choral harmony
sometimes faked with synths under heavily ornamented "passionate"
solo voice...
When it hit, it surely was new...

But I think you answered your own question. The best new trend
is just on the verge of being discovered. The energy that requires
continual novelty for regrowth is just that. And the novelty
is always there, hiding somewhere--and as soon as it's discovered,
it's not novel any more, but something else is waiting to be discovered.
It's a never-ending ride!

--
Matt Fields URL:http://www-personal.umich.edu/~fields
****************************************************
Subject: rockin'
Sent: 3/2/97 17:16
Received: 3/2/97 21:47
From: Andy Perseponko, andyp@cdnow.com
To: chatham@pratique.fr

Hello,
very strange to see yr name on the sonic youth newsgroup, havne't been here
too long, so maybe you are a regular and i never noticed. anyway, just
reading that sonic youth book (confusion is next) and you are all over the
place, neat to see you are still interested. while i agree that a lot of
good stuff is happening fromt the dance world, as far as "rock" goes, dead
c. from new zealand are still taking the quitar to new levels, as are
fuzzhead from kent, ohio who shape a lot of their influences into a very
neat sound, esp on their sun ra tribute lp. loren mazzacane conner is still
playing the spaced out over extended blues and quite good at that. well,
hope all is well, if yr not familiar with this stuff check it out, if you
are let me know what you think. take care andyp
****************************************************
From - Mon Feb 3 21:42:33 1997
From: tagutcow@nr.infi.net (Robert Caponi)
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Date: 3 Feb 1997 05:29:49 GMT
Organization: Excessive, overbearing, and compulsive

In article <smv0386-0102971951110001@132.162.221.103>, "Manu"
<smv0386@oberlin.edu> wrote:

> Techno itself is fascinating as a style and structure of music and as a
> social phenomenon. For me personally, jungle and dub are new worlds of
> possibility. It's also non-corporate right now, for the most part. The

Maybe I'm just not hearing the right stuff, but this whole jungle thing,
IMO, is really trumped up. I'm even hearing people reevaluating pop musics
past in terms of its eventual fruition as jungle music. I'm not getting
too excited because I've already learned that there's no genre of music
whos defining characteristics include consistent quality. These guys have
it all over, say, ca. 1988 Skinny Puppy in terms of hipness, but I'd be
suprised if a single one of them creates stuff as complex and pretty so
many techno-generations later. I've also come to believe that the
technologies for manipulating pure sound will ever fully be exploited in
pop music, nor will pure sound ever be considered substantial musical
material in its own right (Japanese noise music is evidently quite
popular, but still not quite what I have in mind.) I think I prefer more
mainstream dance music, myself. And even at that, John Cougar Melencamp
has more soul than the whole lot of them :)

> Just as composers in the seventies and eighties wrote a lot of great music
> that straddled the lines of rock and classical, I think that composers today
> are going to incorporate techno, hip-hop and its instruments (mainly the
> turntable) into serious music. Jim O' Rourke and others have already
> started this.

For me, at least, the jury's still out on the import of techno, although I
will admit it's alot more exciting now as compared to the rather staid
models used six or seven years ago (clever sample... abrasive dotted
rhythm synth riff... sample repeated... bass drum... sample again...
clicky noises, breakbeats, audience applause, synth riff again, etc. etc.
etc.) However, hip-hop and rap are certainly cultural gifts not to be
taken lightly... IMO, they will prove to be the most influential to have
come from the USA in the last 25 years. There will be many ingenuine
"post-moderny" attempts to mediate between art music and street culture,
but there are people out there with a genuine knowledge and appreciation
of the mediums' most exciting qualities who will be able to distill them
into their art of any idiom.

Some people would be wont to tell you rap has a history extending over
continents and several hundred years, but it seems to me, in spirit at
least, more like something in its infancy than its maturity. It rings alot
of the same bells alot of more rustic forms of expression do. Who knows
where it will end up? One thing that insures rap won't burn itself out is
its extreme conservativeness; innovations spread quickly but come far, far
apart. So much time is spent giving tips of the hat to past masters and
rehashing classic lines (come on, how many times must "you go on and on
and you don't stop" be paid homage?) That the words tend more to describe
the music itself more than a story and that heartfelt expressions of
genuine emotion usually end up sounding kinda embarassing in the medium
consitute yet another challenge; all mood must be condensed into terse,
well-rounded phrases and disconcerting juxtapositions (eg that "Hail Mary"
song they've been playing the hell out of on r&b radio that continually
comes down to the "la--da da da--da da da-da-da" chorus amidst the de
rigeur tales of gangsta life; blew me away the first time I heard it.)
That's it- it's a whole other aesthetic. You certainly don't listen to it
the same way you listen to more information-density based music, but you
still have to *listen*; at least in order to get over the initial hurdle
of appreciating a music whose values are very different from most
everything else we hear. I feel the percieved "aesthetic anarchy" of the
use of the turntable as an instrument unfortunately eclipses a technical
appreciation of rap skills in the minds of people with a passing
familiarity of the mediums. They appreciate it philosophically but, in the
long run, can't appreciate it as music. But I agree with the poster that
the aesthetic possibilities of the turntable are fair game. Why, sparing
use of the "mute" button has already given pop music a whole new lease on
white space.

I am fully aware that alot of people who listen to hiphop listen to very
little else *but* hiphop (and I can understand why; the shit's hypnotizing
in its consistency. It's the only thing I can use as "wallpaper music" for
precisely that reason.) As well, I think it's important not to ignore or
justify that which is tacky and dumb in these mediums. Yeah, I'm only a
geeky white suburban kid; but I'm sure the kids on even the meanest
streets of North Kakkalak recognize can LA gangsta posturing for being
precisely that :) I guess my feeling is more intuitive than anything else
that there's just something *there* in rap and hip-hop in terms of
cultural worth that isn't in other pop musics. The most enduring and
genuine crossovers will be the least self-concious, however, so it all has
to start with inspiration and not contrivance. If your music tells of how
all things are assimilated in your world, the assimilation need not be
obvious nor need the 'world' take primacy over you.

Amazing how I can rant on about topics only marginally related to
composition. Perhaps part of the reason here is because I'm still looking
for direction in music. Major identity issues.
--
T.W.I.D.N Ä http://www.infi.net/~tagutcow/
****************************************************
From - Mon Feb 3 21:43:00 1997

From: Bob Morris <bmorris@ix.netcom.com>
Newsgroups: rec.music.compose
Subject: Re: Is Rock Dead?
Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 21:32:40 -0800
Xref: iway.fr rec.music.compose:40689

> which eventually turned into the genres called techno, ambient music,
> jungle, drum & bass and more!

Genres which still haven't quite hit the mainstream yet. But they
undoubtably will, maybe in different form, maybe undiluted. Just like
punk did.

> So does this mean that Rock is dead and techno (and its many
> sub-genres) rules?

Well, since techno morphs with everything it meets, there should be even
more fascinating stuff happening. Plus it'll let other genres morph
too, like the recent Afro-Celt CD.
Subject: Is Rock Dead?
Sent: 11/4/97 9:09
Received: 11/4/97 11:09
From: John Loughney, john.loughney@ntc.nokia.com
To: Rhys Chatham, chatham@pratique.fr

Hello Rhys,

First, a small comment on your recent essay. My
opinion is that Rock music still is alive and
producing some bracing music. The problem is, is
that it is music for adolecents (primarily). When
people discover it (usually teens), it opens a
whole new world.

If you think about how people felt during the
'summer of love' - rock music spoke to them, of the
times, of rebellion, etc. Later, that became
hippie music, that was looked down on by the punks.
In the late 70's, in London and NYC, people
discovered punk, and for many people - it was life
changing. In the 80's, there was hardcore, indie
bands, grunge. For me, this is when I really felt
part of a scene - and it was quite a powerful
feeling to go to a small club and see Bob Mould
with his amp turned up to 11, to see Thurston Moore
and Lee Ranaldo writhing on the floor, with
screw-drivers in their guitars, etc. etc. I am
sure, for many kids who discovered Nirvana, that
was a life changing experience as well.

Perhaps each generation has its own 'rock' - and
that as one gets older, there isn't enough sense of
discovery ... For me, music is still a huge part of
my life, but rarely do I put on a record (or cd)
and have a visceral reaction to it ... There is a
certain enforced minimalism in rock music, so it is
quite difficult to do something very radical in the
context of rock.

I just read over what I wrote, and its a bit
rambling, but I think you can find a point
somewhere in there.

John Loughney
Subject: ROck Dead
Sent: 8/4/97 8:55
Received: 8/4/97 14:41
From: Tom Rafferty, Twrsurf@aol.com
To: Rhys Chatham, chatham@pratique.fr

Rhys,
2 years ago, I was invited to be in the audience of a late night
Scottish TV show, called Trial By Night, in which people are invited to put
forward a challenging/outragesoues view, which is then debated & voted on by
the audience. I went along with Lindsay Hutton, (Next Big Thing guru,
Dictators fan). The proposer was from a Scottish Techno band, saying "Rock Is
Dead" & techno/dance has taken over. The real message was that instead of
writing about Rod Stewart & Deacon Blue & so on, the local papers should
write about him & his gang. I asked the question "Has your band ever recorded
a version ?" (I knew the answer and it blew his "New Future" spiel) : The
ANswer "Popcoren" (Hot Butter , synthy 70s annoying pop). His motion was not
passed.

As long as we can make a noise & call it art, or be blown away by Dick
Dale live, or hear the MC5 starting the Revolution, or stand in the middle
of 100 guitars and groove, or turn up an electric guitar & wail. then for me
rock & roll is still alive

Best

TOm